Once that is complete I will start the baffle work. I will not spare the proseal because the last thing I want/need is to have to repair the tank once it is closed.
Wednesday, June 10, 2015
More Fuel Tank Progress
Tanks are complete except for baffles. I highly recommend the preliminary leak test prior to putting on the baffles where you fill the tanks with colored water to see if you have any issues which can be corrected. In my case the problem areas are shown below. The ones at the junction of the three pieces underneath the tank attach bracket are very similar type of joints to the corners of the baffles so lesson learned there. Get an inspection mirror and look underneath the j channel as well as under any joint to make sure you have a fay seal with NO small pinholes. The nut shown below has proseal around it but there is a very small hole where the sealant failed to settle. Liquid will find its way out.
Once that is complete I will start the baffle work. I will not spare the proseal because the last thing I want/need is to have to repair the tank once it is closed.
Once that is complete I will start the baffle work. I will not spare the proseal because the last thing I want/need is to have to repair the tank once it is closed.
Monday, May 18, 2015
Tank work continues
Last weekend I was able to complete the riveting of the left tank ribs in one session.
The right tank I had completed the weekend before and used the "set it and forget it" method described on VAF where you let the sealer set up overnight and then come back in the next day or two and rivet.
Both approaches have their positive and negative sides.
Partial cure:
+ Less Mess
+Easier to see the shop end of the rivet to judge how well you riveted
- Need to remove the partial cured sealant from each hole when you put a rivet in
- Need to add new wet sealant to each hole
Wet Seal:
+Wet sealant already there when you go to rivet
+ More sealant seems to squeeze out (ie. Tighter seal potentially)
+ If you have the time riveting really doesn't take that long once you get the rhythm down so avoids waiting overnight or longer
- A mess for sure
- Rush against time while the sealant sets up
If I were to have it to do all over again, I think I really would just set aside the time and rivet wet. Either way there is a mess involved.
I am finding the tanks so far to be more enjoyable than I thought they would be, mostly because I see them progressing quickly. Rather than dragging the tanks out for months on end, once I put the sealant on there I have to finish so it forces me to set aside an entire day to do the work.
I think the stress for me on the tanks is keeping things as neat as I can, but I am using the philosophy here that more seal means less leaks. We will see when the time comes.
I used the individual tubes of proseal and am finding that it is costing around double what it would have if I had just purchased two quarts and some vet syringes as others have. While someone on VAF did illustrate a method which in theory would use seven tubes for the whole project, I found that I am going to take more like ten. They do save you from the messy mixing and with the caulking gun from Vans it works well as long as you release the pressure from it by hitting the tab on the back of it after you are done. That way the dribbling stops while you work on the piece you just coated.
Another tip is to cut scrap strips of aluminum to use as your spreader. Around 5/8" x 4" in works well. Much easier to spread the bead with that than a brush or anything else.
For the swirl on top of the shop head, so far a toothpick works best for me.
Next up: J Channel, followed by the fuel floats and end rib. Then final check, and the dreaded baffles :) I most likely will do a leak test prior to putting the baffles on.
The right tank I had completed the weekend before and used the "set it and forget it" method described on VAF where you let the sealer set up overnight and then come back in the next day or two and rivet.
Both approaches have their positive and negative sides.
Partial cure:
+ Less Mess
+Easier to see the shop end of the rivet to judge how well you riveted
- Need to remove the partial cured sealant from each hole when you put a rivet in
- Need to add new wet sealant to each hole
Wet Seal:
+Wet sealant already there when you go to rivet
+ More sealant seems to squeeze out (ie. Tighter seal potentially)
+ If you have the time riveting really doesn't take that long once you get the rhythm down so avoids waiting overnight or longer
- A mess for sure
- Rush against time while the sealant sets up
If I were to have it to do all over again, I think I really would just set aside the time and rivet wet. Either way there is a mess involved.
I am finding the tanks so far to be more enjoyable than I thought they would be, mostly because I see them progressing quickly. Rather than dragging the tanks out for months on end, once I put the sealant on there I have to finish so it forces me to set aside an entire day to do the work.
I think the stress for me on the tanks is keeping things as neat as I can, but I am using the philosophy here that more seal means less leaks. We will see when the time comes.
I used the individual tubes of proseal and am finding that it is costing around double what it would have if I had just purchased two quarts and some vet syringes as others have. While someone on VAF did illustrate a method which in theory would use seven tubes for the whole project, I found that I am going to take more like ten. They do save you from the messy mixing and with the caulking gun from Vans it works well as long as you release the pressure from it by hitting the tab on the back of it after you are done. That way the dribbling stops while you work on the piece you just coated.
Another tip is to cut scrap strips of aluminum to use as your spreader. Around 5/8" x 4" in works well. Much easier to spread the bead with that than a brush or anything else.
For the swirl on top of the shop head, so far a toothpick works best for me.
Next up: J Channel, followed by the fuel floats and end rib. Then final check, and the dreaded baffles :) I most likely will do a leak test prior to putting the baffles on.
Sunday, May 3, 2015
Fuel Tank Sealing
Up until now, I have been approaching the fuel tanks in small bites, hoping that they would just magically construct themselves.
I am happy to announce: I officially jumped into the pool this weekend. I had decided to use the individual proseal canisters (3.5 OZ available at Aircraft Spruce). Tom Martin on the VAF divided the job up nicely into seven sessions. That was great for me, because it clearly identified the work, and defined the milestones.
The problem is: You need to work fast once you mix the canister. It gives you around two hours of time before the proseal starts to get more difficult to work with. I ended session#1 with only the stiffeners done on the left tank, and the fittings done on the end ribs. Some of the rivets are not the best on the fittings and I am debating drilling them out but for now they will stay the way they are. So it looks like this will be eight sessions at the minimum.
But I am getting ahead of myself here.
The fuel tank sealant in my opinion is as bad as everyone says, and in a sense easier. It gets everywhere you don't want it to get. That is not because it flows, but because it sticks to your glove, or your person, and then transfers on to another surface. I also made the rookie mistake of putting too much on, so when I put the parts together it squeezes out and gets everywhere.
I chose not to use the partial cure method that I see on the forums. I think that wet riveting will bring the parts together while the seal is still wet and get the parts as close as possible. I can see that this will be a mess once I start the ribs.
While it is a messy situation, one relief is that once you put the sealant on, it does not drip or move anywhere. It is the consistency of molasses, maybe even thicker.
More updates as I work through the tanks. The replacement parts for the aileron arrived as well. I am going to build a third one as the removal of the rivets in the trailing edge did not go well.
I am happy to announce: I officially jumped into the pool this weekend. I had decided to use the individual proseal canisters (3.5 OZ available at Aircraft Spruce). Tom Martin on the VAF divided the job up nicely into seven sessions. That was great for me, because it clearly identified the work, and defined the milestones.
The problem is: You need to work fast once you mix the canister. It gives you around two hours of time before the proseal starts to get more difficult to work with. I ended session#1 with only the stiffeners done on the left tank, and the fittings done on the end ribs. Some of the rivets are not the best on the fittings and I am debating drilling them out but for now they will stay the way they are. So it looks like this will be eight sessions at the minimum.
But I am getting ahead of myself here.
The fuel tank sealant in my opinion is as bad as everyone says, and in a sense easier. It gets everywhere you don't want it to get. That is not because it flows, but because it sticks to your glove, or your person, and then transfers on to another surface. I also made the rookie mistake of putting too much on, so when I put the parts together it squeezes out and gets everywhere.
I chose not to use the partial cure method that I see on the forums. I think that wet riveting will bring the parts together while the seal is still wet and get the parts as close as possible. I can see that this will be a mess once I start the ribs.
While it is a messy situation, one relief is that once you put the sealant on, it does not drip or move anywhere. It is the consistency of molasses, maybe even thicker.
More updates as I work through the tanks. The replacement parts for the aileron arrived as well. I am going to build a third one as the removal of the rivets in the trailing edge did not go well.
Thursday, April 2, 2015
Project Update
Long time no update!
Now that Spring is here things should start moving with the build.
I have had a series of setbacks which has dampened my enthusiasm but am working towards getting moving again. Either through lack of attention to detail, or instructions, or both more likely I have had quite a bit of reordering of parts while building the ailerons.
So to summarize where we are:
- Flaps complete
- Wing wiring started
- Purchased safeair kit for pitot, AOA, and static plumbing. Still deciding on approach for the traditional pitot that ships with the kit. Most likely going to go with Garmin G3X (or whatever comes after that) so will use the Garmin Heated Pitot/AOA along with a Gretz mast. I have seen other people mounting the standard unheated on the other wing as a "backup" which I may do but really am trying to avoid going too far off the plans so I keep the build time respectable.
- Tanks are next
Why do I say there have been setbacks? Have had to reorder multiple parts for the ailerons.
And the icing on the cake?????
Just as I am riveting the trailing edge on the right aileron, I noticed that there is a gap between the wedge piece and the skins. At first I tried to convince myself that this was largely a cosmetic issue, and frankly it most likely is however on a part as critical as the ailerons this will keep me up at night. I have started to drill out the rivets, however it is apparent that this will elongate several holes so I am 99% sure I am going to have to rebuild the right aileron ( ~$250 in parts - LOTS more in pride lost).
This couldn't come at a worse time, as I am about to start the fuel tanks which I have been told are the most demoralizing part of the build and I have read several builder accounts where they say that the closest they came to selling the project and just quitting was during the fuel tanks.
I am remaining positive though. In the meantime I am now at least VFR current again after the winter, and will soon get an IPC to get me back in the IFR space. Proficient is another matter, need to make several flights and knock the rust off before I make the journey to Sun and Fun. I am going to fly my Cherokee from the Northeast down to Lakeland, FL over a couple of days. Should be fun assuming the weather cooperates!
Now that Spring is here things should start moving with the build.
I have had a series of setbacks which has dampened my enthusiasm but am working towards getting moving again. Either through lack of attention to detail, or instructions, or both more likely I have had quite a bit of reordering of parts while building the ailerons.
So to summarize where we are:
- Flaps complete
- Wing wiring started
- Purchased safeair kit for pitot, AOA, and static plumbing. Still deciding on approach for the traditional pitot that ships with the kit. Most likely going to go with Garmin G3X (or whatever comes after that) so will use the Garmin Heated Pitot/AOA along with a Gretz mast. I have seen other people mounting the standard unheated on the other wing as a "backup" which I may do but really am trying to avoid going too far off the plans so I keep the build time respectable.
- Tanks are next
Why do I say there have been setbacks? Have had to reorder multiple parts for the ailerons.
And the icing on the cake?????
Just as I am riveting the trailing edge on the right aileron, I noticed that there is a gap between the wedge piece and the skins. At first I tried to convince myself that this was largely a cosmetic issue, and frankly it most likely is however on a part as critical as the ailerons this will keep me up at night. I have started to drill out the rivets, however it is apparent that this will elongate several holes so I am 99% sure I am going to have to rebuild the right aileron ( ~$250 in parts - LOTS more in pride lost).
This couldn't come at a worse time, as I am about to start the fuel tanks which I have been told are the most demoralizing part of the build and I have read several builder accounts where they say that the closest they came to selling the project and just quitting was during the fuel tanks.
I am remaining positive though. In the meantime I am now at least VFR current again after the winter, and will soon get an IPC to get me back in the IFR space. Proficient is another matter, need to make several flights and knock the rust off before I make the journey to Sun and Fun. I am going to fly my Cherokee from the Northeast down to Lakeland, FL over a couple of days. Should be fun assuming the weather cooperates!
Tuesday, January 20, 2015
Early Winter 2015 update!
For anyone who is following along here is the high level update for winter 2015.
I had a EAA tech visit from Bob Dimeo (EAA 106). Bob is a great guy, and had some suggestions for me with regards to rivets that should be fixed and/or removed on the wing skins but other than that thought that the build was going well. He offered to come back and help for a day on the tanks. Would love that, I will most likely try first before I take more of his time.
I decided to work on the tanks in the spring rather than deal with Proseal in the cold winter. Also during the winter I have less time to build especially on the weekends as we ski quite a bit.
So what has been done?
- Leading Edges of wings complete
- Tanks - started deburring and preparing parts
- Tanks - Skins are dimpled - Decided to use regular dies and NOT to use the tank dies on the substructure
- Flaps - Assembled
- Ailerons - started preparing parts
So roughly the next few months are going to be Flaps, Ailerons, Tanks, Wing wiring, Systems, and then mounting of the control surfaces. After that it is bottom skins and then the dreaded (by me) Wing tips. At that point the wings will leave the garage for storage to make room for the tail assembly.
I am considering a Sun and Fun trip this year and will purchase lighting while I am there and play with panels just for fun even though I am years away from needing one.
I will admit things are moving along. The build is now at around 300 hours and it is motivational to see the aircraft take form.
I had a EAA tech visit from Bob Dimeo (EAA 106). Bob is a great guy, and had some suggestions for me with regards to rivets that should be fixed and/or removed on the wing skins but other than that thought that the build was going well. He offered to come back and help for a day on the tanks. Would love that, I will most likely try first before I take more of his time.
I decided to work on the tanks in the spring rather than deal with Proseal in the cold winter. Also during the winter I have less time to build especially on the weekends as we ski quite a bit.
So what has been done?
- Leading Edges of wings complete
- Tanks - started deburring and preparing parts
- Tanks - Skins are dimpled - Decided to use regular dies and NOT to use the tank dies on the substructure
- Flaps - Assembled
- Ailerons - started preparing parts
So roughly the next few months are going to be Flaps, Ailerons, Tanks, Wing wiring, Systems, and then mounting of the control surfaces. After that it is bottom skins and then the dreaded (by me) Wing tips. At that point the wings will leave the garage for storage to make room for the tail assembly.
I am considering a Sun and Fun trip this year and will purchase lighting while I am there and play with panels just for fun even though I am years away from needing one.
I will admit things are moving along. The build is now at around 300 hours and it is motivational to see the aircraft take form.
Friday, October 10, 2014
Still here :) Chipping away
I am still working on the 14A, though at a bit slower pace. Family commitments and business travel have slowed down progress however I am starting to get my head back into the game.
Leading edges are 80% complete at this point and I am beginning to debur the tank ribs.
One interesting problem I am encountering with the leading edges is the lower rivets where the leading edge begins to curve (the forward portion of the leading edge). There are alignment issues between the splice strip and the dimples on the skin. I am going to remove the improper rivets (Tails squashed in an inappropriate way) and check the alignment. Will post the solution when I get back to it.
Other than that things are working well. I have been looking at lighting options but am thinking I will wait and purchase those at a later time perhaps next oshkosh.
By that time I may have even started the tail and will be able to purchase all the lighting at the same time.
With regards to tanks I am considering using a method I have seen posted recently on Vans Airforce. This uses around six smaller proseal bottles (3 oz each) rather than purchasing a Semco gun and packing the cartridges yourself. The specific thread is here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=118078
Stay tuned!
Leading edges are 80% complete at this point and I am beginning to debur the tank ribs.
One interesting problem I am encountering with the leading edges is the lower rivets where the leading edge begins to curve (the forward portion of the leading edge). There are alignment issues between the splice strip and the dimples on the skin. I am going to remove the improper rivets (Tails squashed in an inappropriate way) and check the alignment. Will post the solution when I get back to it.
Other than that things are working well. I have been looking at lighting options but am thinking I will wait and purchase those at a later time perhaps next oshkosh.
By that time I may have even started the tail and will be able to purchase all the lighting at the same time.
With regards to tanks I am considering using a method I have seen posted recently on Vans Airforce. This uses around six smaller proseal bottles (3 oz each) rather than purchasing a Semco gun and packing the cartridges yourself. The specific thread is here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=118078
Stay tuned!
Thursday, September 4, 2014
Time flies
Time is moving quickly, but wanted to put an update out to tell everyone that I am still here and building away. The summer was productive but less than I had thought. A few vacations, and less building than I wanted due to lack of a second set of hands.
Update on the project:
Top skins are complete, and riveted on. I still have around ten rivets to drill out and fix but the skins are on. Was not painful at all. I found that depending on the level of skill I had with the other person I ended up using a combination of back riveting as well as conventional flush riveting with a bar. The Cleavland tools large back rivet bar came in handy and the small tungsten bar also worked well. There were times where the 3.5 rivets felt a bit too short but everything specs out well and while a few of them are ugly, they do appear safe.
I was unable to get the j-channel to line up well on the right wing. The rivet holes all lined up well however the bent portion appeared to have a different profile on one of the pieces. Sterling at Vans thought this was strange but after looking at the pictures told me he thought it would be fine as it is just a stiffner and I did not have to preload it to rivet it together.
I have started the leading edges as well, and am already starting to think towards the dreaded tank building which looks like is going to be my winter project at the rate things are going. That may work out well considering I am away many of the weekends in the winter skiing so that gives time for the proseal to set up prior to riveting.
Having fun, but I will say that the wings are a looooooong process with lots of repetition.
Update on the project:
Top skins are complete, and riveted on. I still have around ten rivets to drill out and fix but the skins are on. Was not painful at all. I found that depending on the level of skill I had with the other person I ended up using a combination of back riveting as well as conventional flush riveting with a bar. The Cleavland tools large back rivet bar came in handy and the small tungsten bar also worked well. There were times where the 3.5 rivets felt a bit too short but everything specs out well and while a few of them are ugly, they do appear safe.
I was unable to get the j-channel to line up well on the right wing. The rivet holes all lined up well however the bent portion appeared to have a different profile on one of the pieces. Sterling at Vans thought this was strange but after looking at the pictures told me he thought it would be fine as it is just a stiffner and I did not have to preload it to rivet it together.
I have started the leading edges as well, and am already starting to think towards the dreaded tank building which looks like is going to be my winter project at the rate things are going. That may work out well considering I am away many of the weekends in the winter skiing so that gives time for the proseal to set up prior to riveting.
Having fun, but I will say that the wings are a looooooong process with lots of repetition.
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